Talk:Royal Ontario Museum

Museum Governance and Executive Pay?

Why is there no section on the decision making authorities at the museum and what their compensation is?

Perhaps how often they work and their expense claims too. This should all be public record. I'd love to hear who decided to pay how much for the "Blight on Bloor" as well as where all the Planetarium money went.

http://www.rom.on.ca/en/support-us/about-the-rom-governors/leadership/susan-horvath— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.12.11.152 (talk • contribs)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Royal Ontario Museum/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Anne drew Andrew and Drew (talk · contribs) 16:00, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

• Well written
  • Overall:

Resolved

ten renovated galleries comprising a total of 90,000 square feet (8,000 m2) Metres should go first per WP:UNITS. This should also be changed elsewhere in the article. The Schad Gallery of Biodiversity is not merely an exhibition gallery showcasing Earth's wondrous specimens, but a lesson for the future care of the planet. Unencyclopedic tone The Museum subway station of the Toronto Transit Commission is named... "of The Toronto Transit Commission" seems redundant—the TTC is the only subway service in Toronto The museum contains collections of...European history and Canadian history. This sounds odd to me. Maybe should be something like "collections of European and Canadian historical artifacts"? The museum contains notable collections of dinosaurs, minerals "Notable" seems unnecessary here The museum also contains an extensive collection of design and fine arts Should this be "fine art"? In 1947, the ROM was dissolved as a body corporate, with all assets transferred to the University of Toronto. This continued until 1968, when the Museum... The dissolution continued until 1968? Maybe should rephrased as the museum remained a part of the University until 1968, when... ...a $55 million expansion took the form of layered volumes, each rising layer stepping back from Bloor Street—hence creating a layered terrace effect Is there another way to describe the structure? I find these "volumes" difficult to visualize. I changed this to took the form of layered terraces, each rising layer stepping back from Bloor Street – Anne drew 23:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC) It should probably be "the $55 million expansion..." In 2006, the curatorial centre was renamed to Louise Hawley Stone Curatorial Centre in honour of the late Louise Hawley Stone, who devoted herself to the ROM throughout her life and she donated a number of artifacts and various collections to the museum. I think this should be rephrased to something like ...who devoted herself to the ROM throughout her life, having donated... This trend continued and up until the present time "Until the present time" doesn't sound very idiomatic. Perhaps we can say "until the present day"? This time span witnessed the bit of Western art. Is this meant to say "birth"? Buddhism being a large part of the Korean culture was introduced to them through China and took hold on the general population. This sounds a little stilted. Can it be rephrased?

• Lead section:
  • It is one of the largest museums in North America and the largest in Canada.
    • This information is not in the articles body and is not sourced. It is also unclear what "largest" means here; does it mean the museum's footprint, square-footage, collection size, or something else? If possible, I think it would be useful to say what rank it is among the largest museums in North America.
  • The lead does a decent job of summarizing the History and Galleries sections of the article, but it should also summarize the Buildings and architecture section.
• Article layout:

Resolved
Should #Offsite storage be made into a subsection of #Buildings and architecture? There should be a See also section with a link to List of museums in Toronto

• Words to watch:

Resolved

...such as ceremonial masks, ceramics and even a shrunken head. Remove "even" – editorializing ...and a replica fox's den are just some of the objects that connect visitors to the amazing diversity and interdependence of plants and animals. Sounds a bit peacocky to me. I would remove the words "just" and "amazing". ...serves as...the ROM's window on contemporary society, striving to connect the ROM's vast natural history and world cultures collection to contemporary art and events More flowery language. I would rephrase to get rid of the words "window", "striving", and "vast".

• ...to display the strength and weaknesses of the collections and strongly reflect the French and British cultural heritage of Canada
  • Is "strongly" necessary here?
  • Now this has been rephrased to The displays are split up into sections to display the strength and weaknesses of the collections reflect the French and British cultural heritage of Canada, but honestly I'm still not sure what this is meant to mean – Anne drew 23:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
• Writing about fiction: N/A
• List incorporation:

• Verifiable
  • Citations:

Resolved

Citations are all formatted fine. By the 1980s, however, the planetarium's audiences were dwindling and due to budget cuts, the facility was forced to shut down in November 1995. The source given does not support low visitorship / budget cuts explanation for shut down The architectural opening for the Michael Lee-Chin Crystal, however, took place less than 18 months later, on 2 June 2007. Source is a dead link ...the architectural style of the original building is Italianate Neo-Romanesque, popular throughout North America until the 1870s. This whole section could use more citations, but this claim in particular should be sourced The final cost of the project was about $270 million. Source is a dead link In the master plan designed by Darling and Pearson in 1909, the ROM took a form similar to that of J.N.L. Durand's ideal model of the museum (published in the early 19th century). Citation needed On 1 June 2007, the Governor General, Michaëlle Jean, attended the architectural opening of the "Michael Lee-Chin Crystal." Dead link ...Globe and Mail architecture critic Lisa Rochon complained that "the new ROM rages at the world," was oppressive, angsty and hellish, while others—perhaps championed by her Toronto Star counterpart, Christopher Hume—hailed it as a monument. Source given does not have either of these quotes Installation of the permanent galleries of the Lee-Chin Crystal began mid-June 2007, after a ten-day period when all the empty gallery spaces were open to the public. Dead link / failed verification There are over 400 specimens specimens from North America and South America...are 30 fossil skeletons of extinct mammals, over 160 non-mammalian specimens and hundreds of fossil... These numbers need citations The highlight of the exhibit is Gordo, one of the most complete examples of the Barosaurus in North America and the largest dinosaur on display in Canada Source link is dead Both the Government of Canada and the Royal Ontario Museum committed $2.75 million toward the project Source link is dead There are over 230 artifacts that relate to the dedication of Constantinople... Citation needed for number The gallery contains more than 1,000 artifacts that help to reveal the economic and social forces that have influenced Native art Citation needed for number The Gallery of Korea is the only gallery of Korean art in Canada. Citation needed for surprising fact The gallery has approximately 560 artifacts on display and covers the period from early European settlement to the beginning of the modern industrial era Citation needed for number With approximately 260 objects and artifacts, the gallery brings to life Korean and culture. Citation needed for number The Samuel European Galleries have over 4,600 objects Citation needed for number Partners include United Way Toronto... Needs a citation The campaign aimed not only to raise annual visitor attendance from 750,000 to between 1.3 and 1.6 million, but also to generate additional funding opportunities to support the museum's research, conservation, galleries and educational public programs. Source is a dead link The overall aim of The Crystal is to provide openness and accessibility, seeking to blur the lines between the threshold linking the public area of the street and the more private area of the museum Citation needed or this sentence should be removed The project also experienced budget and construction time over-runs Not supported by source given In September 2009, the gallery received an Award of Excellence by the Association of Registered Interior Designers of Ontario Needs a citation

• Reliable sources:
• No Original Research:

• The displays became more descriptive and interpretive...This trend continued and up until the present time...This trend arguably came to a culmination in the 1980s with the opening of The Bat Cave

• This is interesting information, but we need a source to back up our claim that ROM exhibits are becoming more descriptive and interpretive.

• Copyright Violations / Plagiarism:

Broad in coverage

• All major aspects:
• No unnecessary detail:

Resolved
On 19 March 1914, at 3:00pm, the Duke of Connaught... The time of day seems like an unnecessary level of detail

Neutral point of view

• Overall:
• Due weight given to topics:

Stable:

Images

• Well illustrated (if possible):
• Images tagged with copyright info:
• Fair use rationale given for non-free content: N/A
• Images are relevant:

• Comment: Nice article, but there are a few issues that need to be addressed before it is promoted to GA. In particular, the citations need some work. If you have any questions, feel free to leave them on this page. – Anne drew 14:36, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Pass/Fail: Fail. The article is pretty close but there are a few outstanding issues. This GA assessment has been going on for a long time so I have to fail it for now. Please address the issues here and renominate when you think the article passes all of the Good Article Criteria. Thank you for contributing! – Anne drew 17:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Threaded discussion

Feel free to respond to specific points above, or you can leave longer replies here. – Anne drew 17:42, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorta noticed this wasn't getting worked on in the past few days, so I fixed the corrections pointed out so far except for the sentence, took the form of layered volumes, each rising layer stepping back from, as I'm not sure whats actually being described here. Haven't worked on the citations though, but I can get around to it at a later point.

Also, as opposed to rewording the birth of Western art and the first prose on Korean buddhism, I just opted to remove them entirely (the former is contentious without further contextualization on what that means; for the latter... not wrong, but seems rather tangential considering the topic is the museum's collection... which could also be said for the Western Art thingy). Leventio (talk) 21:35, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

A few years ago, I believe that a ROM intern (MJMcGowan) substantially expanded the article, albeit with some formatting and style issues. I have corrected some of these issues and she was thankful. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Updated the following dead links (most were just caused by the ROM randomly making page moves)/no citations, so I think we should be up to date with the review for the most part. However, I wasn't able to fix up the five proses including; "The campaign aimed not only to raise annual visitor attendance from 750,000 to between 1.3 and 1.6 milli...", "The overall aim of The Crystal is to provide openness and acc...", "The project also experienced budget and constructio...", "In September 2009, the gallery received an Award of Excellence by...", and "The displays became more descriptive and interpretive...This trend contin....

Couldn't find sources for the first four (I mean, I assume for the most part their true, although cursory Googling brought me nothing). As for the last highlighted prose... I don't really know where to begin without reading an actual book on exhibit developments or the museum. I'd be in favour of removing those proses if they become an issue to this GAN. Leventio (talk) 13:52, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree. Those proses sound a little promotional (especially if sourced to ROM documents). Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:31, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Leventio and Johnny Au, nice job! The article is nearly there, just a few more minor issues left to be resolved. I'll see if I can find sources for the remaining sentences that need citations. – Anne drew 23:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Anne drew Andrew and Drew! Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:45, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

No prob! I went ahead and removed this sentence: The overall aim of The Crystal is to provide openness and accessibility, seeking to blur the lines between the threshold linking the public area of the street and the more private area of the museum. I couldn't find a source and honestly it sounds kinda promotional. I also moved the "Offsite storage" section to make it a subsection "Buildings and architecture"—let me know if you disagree with this change. – Anne drew 20:03, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

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Missing First Peoples Gallery!

The ROM's First People's Gallery is a permanent exhibit on the first floor of the ROM that opened in 2005. From this article, one would assume that First Nations has no independent gallery, but rather is only represented in an exhibit that includes Africa, The Americas, South Asia and South Pacific! I published an article about the First Peoples gallery, so I know there are reliable sources out there. Obviously, I can't cite my own article, otherwise I would fix this issue. The under and mis representation of all four of these non-Western regions exacerbates the imbalance of representation on Wikipedia, and misrepresents the ROM's active policies surrounding collaboration, consultation and representation of Canada's First Peoples. I hope someone unrelated to me can address these issues!

On a related note, I've noticed that several of the articles on Natural History museums include extensive descriptions of "galleries," which may or may not actually be permanent. Galleries are often named after sponsors who have nothing to do with the content of the permanent or temporary exhibits within them. Is the aim of this article organization to capture the view the public will see when visiting? If so, it will constantly need updating. Would it be more useful, or a useful addition, to include descriptions of the collections within their curatorial divisions? This would help researchers identify significant materials, as well as present a more accurate and permanent picture of any museum's overall holdings. Coryannyyz (talk) 19:20, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

The article states "The Daphne Cockwell Gallery of Canada: First Peoples provides a look inside the culture of Canada's earliest societies: the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada. The gallery contains more than 1,000 artifacts that help to reveal the economic and social forces that have influenced Native art." It's not in any way connected to Africa, Americans, South Asia or South Pacific, it's under Canadian and not mentioned in any way in the section you referred to. Canterbury Tail talk 19:27, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

@Coryannyyz: You've made less than 10 edits to Wikipedia, and already you're incorrectly criticizing the hard work of the volunteers who wrote this article. Don't like the article? Please read WP:CTW and then try to improve it. And if you already "know there are reliable sources out there", then easy peasy. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:14, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

@Canterbury Tail Thank you for your feedback! Overall I think this is a very good article and I do appreciate all the work that Wikipedians do to ensure the quality of information available on the platform. Indeed, it seems that due to a responsive view issue the "Canada" heading was not visible at the time when I read the ROM article, and therefore, I had overlooked that small section. I appreciate your pointing this out to me, as it will help me to employ extra caution in reading and responding to Wikipedia articles in future. As @Magnolia677 points out, I am new to Wikipedia and am not yet familiar with all of its functions and protocols. I think the section on the Daphne Cockwell Gallery could be improved, but I will abstain for the time being since, as I pointed out, I might have a conflict of interest with the sources I could use. In the meantime, I am studying the guidelines for museum articles to bring my expectations in line with the actual framework used by Wikipedians for museum articles. Thank you both! Coryannyyz (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks and happy editing! Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:15, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I've added a couple of more recent third-party references about the First Peoples Gallery. Pharos (talk) 20:34, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)